Grail Definition?

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_xxx_
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Grail Definition?

Post by _xxx_ » Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:57 am

A matter of definition as always. I can't understand that sort of thinking at all, since I'm no collector shrug Either it's a killer guitar or not, no value beyond that to me.

LiamMaru
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Grail Definition?

Post by LiamMaru » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:03 am

louieatienza wrote:Here's the other "Grail" I mentioned... I'd love to own this one...
You lost me a bit with your posts (I'm having a 'slow' day), but great pics, thanks for sharing. Could you please share the details on this maple board 'Retta? Who, what, where..? Very interested in knowing more :thumbs .

Are all grails R5? I recall this was often the 'dealbreaker' with them for would-be owners.

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sixstring
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Grail Definition?

Post by sixstring » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:11 pm

Indeed, grail is a matter of preference
_xxx_ wrote:A matter of definition as always. I can't understand that sort of thinking at all, since I'm no collector shrug Either it's a killer guitar or not, no value beyond that to me.
Meant to be played not cherished. I want to be able to dig into it & not sweat the consequences.
But let's face it, someone buys a Kramer b/c it has a Floyd.

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KickstartMyHeart
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Grail Definition?

Post by KickstartMyHeart » Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:04 am

_xxx_ wrote:Either it's a killer guitar or not, no value beyond that to me.
Amen. Same here.
Practice cures most tone issues.

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Grail Definition?

Post by louieatienza » Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:17 pm

LiamMaru wrote:
louieatienza wrote:Here's the other "Grail" I mentioned... I'd love to own this one...
You lost me a bit with your posts (I'm having a 'slow' day), but great pics, thanks for sharing. Could you please share the details on this maple board 'Retta? Who, what, where..? Very interested in knowing more :thumbs .

Are all grails R5? I recall this was often the 'dealbreaker' with them for would-be owners.
LOL I can't post info on it... until it's MINE LOLOL! What I can tell you is that the neck was converted, just like the 5150, by Paul Unkert at the factory (hence the painted headstock back.) It is also made of poplar, whereas most production Barettas were maple.

As to nut width, yes, supposedly all production "Grails" have an R5 nut. I never understood why this would be a dealbreaker. Back then, wider necks were in vogue, and all of the Charvels that Eddie played prior to Kramer were indeed 1-3/4" nuts (R5), and the necks, while not Ibanez thin, were thinner than what Fender and Gibson were offering. If you've held an original San Dimas Charvel pre-pro, you'd know what I mean. Even though my hands are not large, I much prefer a wider neck. Narrower necks are great for cowboy chords and blues, but I don't play that stuff on a Kramer anyways. I do play a lot of surf music on my Kramers, where the Floyd is a huge plus.

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Grail Definition?

Post by LiamMaru » Fri Sep 28, 2018 6:55 am

louieatienza wrote:
LiamMaru wrote:
louieatienza wrote:Here's the other "Grail" I mentioned... I'd love to own this one...
You lost me a bit with your posts (I'm having a 'slow' day), but great pics, thanks for sharing. Could you please share the details on this maple board 'Retta? Who, what, where..? Very interested in knowing more :thumbs .

Are all grails R5? I recall this was often the 'dealbreaker' with them for would-be owners.
LOL I can't post info on it... until it's MINE LOLOL! What I can tell you is that the neck was converted, just like the 5150, by Paul Unkert at the factory (hence the painted headstock back.) It is also made of poplar, whereas most production Barettas were maple.

As to nut width, yes, supposedly all production "Grails" have an R5 nut. I never understood why this would be a dealbreaker. Back then, wider necks were in vogue, and all of the Charvels that Eddie played prior to Kramer were indeed 1-3/4" nuts (R5), and the necks, while not Ibanez thin, were thinner than what Fender and Gibson were offering. If you've held an original San Dimas Charvel pre-pro, you'd know what I mean. Even though my hands are not large, I much prefer a wider neck. Narrower necks are great for cowboy chords and blues, but I don't play that stuff on a Kramer anyways. I do play a lot of surf music on my Kramers, where the Floyd is a huge plus.
Hahaha, playing your cards close... maybe a wise decision. I was wondering about the painted headstock, poplar... such a sweet axe. Something I notice - the truss rod notch. For me, this is a big deal - I hate not being able to get to my truss rod. This is one of those 'vintage' features that to me is just completely arse-backwards and should be resigned to history.

Good luck getting your hands on it, look forward to hearing more when you do!

Agree with you on the R5. I don't own any R5 necks (well, one, it's a sad story). However I learned to play on a classical guitar with a boat neck. I would prefer a wider-neck, but I just got used to 'what's available'. When your options are limited it's adapt or perish.

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Grail Definition?

Post by louieatienza » Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:38 pm

LiamMaru wrote:
louieatienza wrote:
LiamMaru wrote:
You lost me a bit with your posts (I'm having a 'slow' day), but great pics, thanks for sharing. Could you please share the details on this maple board 'Retta? Who, what, where..? Very interested in knowing more :thumbs .

Are all grails R5? I recall this was often the 'dealbreaker' with them for would-be owners.
LOL I can't post info on it... until it's MINE LOLOL! What I can tell you is that the neck was converted, just like the 5150, by Paul Unkert at the factory (hence the painted headstock back.) It is also made of poplar, whereas most production Barettas were maple.

As to nut width, yes, supposedly all production "Grails" have an R5 nut. I never understood why this would be a dealbreaker. Back then, wider necks were in vogue, and all of the Charvels that Eddie played prior to Kramer were indeed 1-3/4" nuts (R5), and the necks, while not Ibanez thin, were thinner than what Fender and Gibson were offering. If you've held an original San Dimas Charvel pre-pro, you'd know what I mean. Even though my hands are not large, I much prefer a wider neck. Narrower necks are great for cowboy chords and blues, but I don't play that stuff on a Kramer anyways. I do play a lot of surf music on my Kramers, where the Floyd is a huge plus.
Hahaha, playing your cards close... maybe a wise decision. I was wondering about the painted headstock, poplar... such a sweet axe. Something I notice - the truss rod notch. For me, this is a big deal - I hate not being able to get to my truss rod. This is one of those 'vintage' features that to me is just completely arse-backwards and should be resigned to history.

Good luck getting your hands on it, look forward to hearing more when you do!

Agree with you on the R5. I don't own any R5 necks (well, one, it's a sad story). However I learned to play on a classical guitar with a boat neck. I would prefer a wider-neck, but I just got used to 'what's available'. When your options are limited it's adapt or perish.
In reality, the trussrod notch is there only to serve as clearance for the truss nut, not to make adjustments. This was a carryover in design from the original Strats and Teles, that actually had the same notch hidden under the pickguard. Those workers, however, got really good at anticipating how much adjustment is needed after an initial fitment.

I got to look for it, but I made an Excel spreadsheet that calculates the amount of bow adjustment on a neck given the amount of turn of the trussrod nut. It's not perfect as wood compression, trussrod stretch and other factors are not factored in; just pure mathematics. But it's pretty close. On my vintage trem guitars, I simply loosen the strings, put a capo at the first and 12th frets, then loosen the neck screws and tilt the neck up to make adjustments, then simply reverse the procedure. I used to use blue tape, but on some vintage instruments it can cause loose finish to pull, and I'd have another dilemma to deal with. On a Floyded guitar, it's easier because the locking nut will hold the string in place; I merely loosen the bolts to detune the strings, then snug them up to keep them from unwinding on the tuner posts.

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Pcruis1
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Grail Definition?

Post by Pcruis1 » Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:54 pm

I've grown very fond lately of the truss rod adjustment being in the heel. In the last year I've busted a nut on a les paul and a strat where the nut is near the headstock (I know, I know, I'm going to pay for that comment) - you can't see the dam thing, and it's easy to strip them out. I would much rather adjust with a big screw driver a quarter turn in the heel and be done with it. I've come to believe that taking the neck off and doing the adjustment is much better and safer as it eliminates the tension off the neck while you do your adjustment.
I also agree on the R5. I have one Pacer that is a sports maple R5, and it is amazing.
1981 Pacer Strat Head White
1981 Pacer Strat Head Walnut
1981 Pacer Strat Head Graphic
1981 Pacer Strat Head Sunburst
1982 Pacer Graphic Beak
83/86 Mutt Pacer - TransRed Beak
1984 Pacer Candy Red Hockey

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KickstartMyHeart
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Grail Definition?

Post by KickstartMyHeart » Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:05 pm

Pcruis1 wrote:busted a nut
Sorry, couldn´t help it shrug .

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80sChris
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Grail Definition?

Post by 80sChris » Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:22 pm

With nut adjustment at the headstock end it really pays to have the right tools. I really like the bullet truss rods for easy adjustment. I like those spoke nut rods too.

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