FAKE Pacer, beware

Discussion about Kramer Guitars on eBay, Craigslist, and online. Fake or Rare, you will see them here.
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_xxx_
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FAKE Pacer, beware

Post by _xxx_ » Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:56 am

Here's a mutt with re-logoed focus neck and whatever the body is, watch out...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Kramer-Pacer-D ... SwE1Bbi~td

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sixstring
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FAKE Pacer, beware

Post by sixstring » Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:02 am

Looks like a focus body as well. shrug
But let's face it, someone buys a Kramer b/c it has a Floyd.

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9am53
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FAKE Pacer, beware

Post by 9am53 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:27 am

how can you tell its fake?
It may not be long, but it sure is skinny!

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Pcruis1
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FAKE Pacer, beware

Post by Pcruis1 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:48 am

xxx, you have far more expertise than me, but this appears to have been some sort of project guitar, probably put together by a prior owner, and not the current seller. Looks like a strat body, converted to HSS, beak Kramer neck, aftermarket plate, and all sorts of mods thereafter. Someone put decent money into building that guitar. They even added locking tuners, which is strange.....
Just a guess - not a bad looking guitar, though obviously not what it says it is.
1981 Pacer Strat Head White
1981 Pacer Strat Head Walnut
1981 Pacer Strat Head Graphic
1981 Pacer Strat Head Sunburst
1982 Pacer Graphic Beak
83/86 Mutt Pacer - TransRed Beak
1984 Pacer Candy Red Hockey

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_xxx_
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FAKE Pacer, beware

Post by _xxx_ » Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:09 pm

It escapes me why people invest more in upgrades than what the guitar is worth but yeah, it's a project mutt including refin and all. May be worth 350-400 in parts as is, but far from 1k bin he's asking for. Either he's been had by the previous owner or he's a cheater, but that changes nothing for potential buyers.
9am53 wrote:how can you tell its fake?
Stubby headstock tip and thin not amber tinted finish is clearly Focus. Body is obviously not Pacer either, may be Focus or some other lesser asian model.

I got locking tuners on my Imp as well, it's simply comfy for fast string change or when you work on it and have to re-tune several times.

louieatienza
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FAKE Pacer, beware

Post by louieatienza » Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:12 pm

The body is DEFINITELY a Sports... and they're easy to spot and differentiate from a Focus.

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Pcruis1
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FAKE Pacer, beware

Post by Pcruis1 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:50 pm

_xxx_ wrote:It escapes me why people invest more in upgrades than what the guitar is worth but yeah, it's a project mutt including refin and all. May be worth 350-400 in parts as is, but far from 1k bin he's asking for. Either he's been had by the previous owner or he's a cheater, but that changes nothing for potential buyers.
9am53 wrote:how can you tell its fake?
Stubby headstock tip and thin not amber tinted finish is clearly Focus. Body is obviously not Pacer either, may be Focus or some other lesser asian model.

I got locking tuners on my Imp as well, it's simply comfy for fast string change or when you work on it and have to re-tune several times.
Nothing wrong in my mind with upgrading and spending more on a guitar than it's worth - guitars are generally very poor investments regardless. Buy em, play em, make em yours, it's all good.
1981 Pacer Strat Head White
1981 Pacer Strat Head Walnut
1981 Pacer Strat Head Graphic
1981 Pacer Strat Head Sunburst
1982 Pacer Graphic Beak
83/86 Mutt Pacer - TransRed Beak
1984 Pacer Candy Red Hockey

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_xxx_
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FAKE Pacer, beware

Post by _xxx_ » Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:10 pm

The wrong thing is that you can buy the "real thing" for the sum total, which beats the crap out of the upgraded lower end model. Typical example being this one above - for those probably 700-800 invested in total, he could have easily bought a real Pacer.

It's illogical unless you *really* like that particular guitar for whatever sentimental reason or the rarity or such. Nothing against it if someone has money to burn, but you will never see me doing this shrug

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80sChris
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FAKE Pacer, beware

Post by 80sChris » Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:39 pm

Yeah, Sports body for sure.
No serial# neck plate is odd. Not sure on the neck but everything else has been replaced.

louieatienza
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FAKE Pacer, beware

Post by louieatienza » Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:01 pm

I see no deceit. Mentions specifically that the body and neck were separate, as well as the parts. Here's the translation:
This guitar I have successively built up a ' 84 Kramer Pacer Deluxe Body (Alder), which I brought from the USA, from my guitar maker.
I had the body painted with Walter Kraushaar in White (polyurethane) (Superthin).
The neck also comes from the USA (Maple/Rosewood) and is a beginning/mid 80s Chickenhead with the patent pending Decall.
The Pickguard (3 ply) I have to cut after the original template (1 ply).
The configuration is HSS:
-The Steghumbucker is a Seymour Duncan Jeff Beck Trembucker with a nickel cap.
-In the middle sits a singel coil (custom flat strat-middle RWRP SSL-6 RWRP).
-On the neck a single coil (SSL-6Custom flat).
As a tremolo, I opted for a sounder lock master. In my view better than the "original" Floyd Rose. It is optimized around ' fu-tone ' brass parts (Spring claw, screw and block).
There are locking tuner installed.
All in all a great guitar that geba for the harder gait
Looking at the headstock pic, it sure does look like a silk-screened waterslide decal. Regardless of one thinks of the shape - and that is also up for debate as they mixed and matched parts - the neck looks pretty legit to me. I don't think the asking price is bad either, as someone would have what looks to be a gig-ready instrument.

Whether there is value in a build like this is up to the potential buyer. Not all buyers are of a collector mind. In fact we had a thread earlier where many folks said that they are more players than collectors, yet all the sudden playability goes out the window because the guitar is not all original. Then there was the thread where folks said that anything could have happened at Kramer the way parts were mixed and matched, yet this body is not a real USA Pacer, and the neck can't be from a USA series because of the headstock shape. Meanwhile there's about 3 or 4 non-tilt nana head shapes, and about as many tilt-nana head shapes... not to mention scarf joined, 3-piece, "tranny", "tranny" with skunk stripe... And really this has ALWAYS been the problem with Kramers as far as collectability.


What I can say for sure is that there is no doubt in my mind this is a Sports body. Starting with the larger body shape with larger space around the cutaways, the hard edge on the forearm contour, the tummy cut that is a lot longer than a Focus and blends in more with the forearm cut on the front, the shape of the trem cavity, the half-length bevel for the springs (Focus have fully beveled spring cavity because they are CNC'd), and the smoking gun "notch" on the lower left side that can be seen on many if not all USA bodies from at least '82 all the way to '85.

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