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 Post subject: New Kramer line
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:48 pm 
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Kramer Maniac
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Location: Augusta, ga
_xxx_ wrote:
To be fair, *they* are not producing it, but the same asian sweatshops that are producing cheap Epiphones etc.

What would you want to change about the real US Les Paul and why? shrug Can't do much better there IMO, those will be around in another 100 years just the same. Kramer is way behind in their priority list, especially regarding the projected possible revenue. MusciYo had much less overhead regarding costs, Gibson couldn't offer the same prices. They won't invest much into it just to make a few hundred fans like us happy. Look at the sales numbers of GKG "USA custom shop" for comparison, I dunno if they ever reached 3 digits.


Being in the sales business and having competition everywhere around us we have managed to stand out and even though our prices are more than our competitors prices we're still backed up and have new customers everyday. We've tripled what we did for the entire year so far this year.

Here's the secret......offer a great product not the same crap everyone else offers, when the customer sees value and quality they will pay for it.

Now if you keep producing cheap ass guitars your sales will not go up. Here's why:
I can get the same crappy guitar in 50 different brands for a cheap price. Now what makes the Kramer brand stand out among NEW customers? The simple answer is......nothing. The same cheap feeling necks, fret boards that feel just ok, the same knock off pickups, etc....as every other entry level guitar made today.

If you build it they will come is not just a phrase from a movie. If you build a quality guitar that stands out, the customers that actually play a guitar before they buy one will feel the quality, the tone, the nice fast neck and low and behold it's competitively priced with guitars that don't "feel" as good.

Secondly, if you continue to target the hairband era, all you have left, as far as consumers, are the handful that hold onto to that era. What they need to do is target todays customer

_________________
1986 Focus 1000 "Spidey"
1984 Pacer Special Custom Paint (Won on the Kramer Forum)
1999 Baretta (Holoflash)
1985 Baretta
1990 Baretta 1 Klein Naked lady reverse bound headstock
Stagemaster Deluxe "Guido"


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 Post subject: New Kramer line
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:58 pm 
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Kramer Maniac
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Location: Augusta, ga
Musicyo at least made two really good guitars. The Jersey Star USA made reissue and the '84 Baretta reissue. Gibson produced a big turd with their SM-1 and just put a big price tag on it. And btw the neck through Yo's are great feeling guitars, they just needed real pickups and a real Floyd.

_________________
1986 Focus 1000 "Spidey"
1984 Pacer Special Custom Paint (Won on the Kramer Forum)
1999 Baretta (Holoflash)
1985 Baretta
1990 Baretta 1 Klein Naked lady reverse bound headstock
Stagemaster Deluxe "Guido"


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 Post subject: New Kramer line
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:15 pm 
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Kramer Maniac
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Craig Johnson wrote:
So many other great axes to RI....ProAxe, Liberty... :thumbs[/quote


But look how bad they screwed up the Stagemaster! Plus they had Ken's real one in hand to go by and STILL screwed it up. It's nothing like a real Stagemaster.


Yeah it was sad; Kevin is a helluva guy and an awesome bass player. I told him; just send me an empty box with return shipping and it's all yours. It was supposed to be a month situation...3 months later, I told Kevin to keep it as long as needed and make it legit. It was over 4 months and he sent me a Vaccaro Pacer for thanks...again cool cat. Apparently, they didn't digitize it properly...never played the reissues but apparently the necks were off and other issues.

In Kevin's defense, as I spoke with him many times during the process, money and resources were extremely tight from the Mothership and he/they did the best they could. Doesn't make sense.

Kevin is a standup dude and really tried to resurrect the brand...I can tell you his hands were tied. Shame.

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 Post subject: New Kramer line
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:55 pm 
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Kramer Maniac
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Posts: 694
Interestingly, this has been sitting on Craigslist in Atlanta for the past 2 months. What do you guys think it is, some sort of prototype? Check out the case!

https://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/msd/ ... 44579.html

_________________
SO many projects, so little time!

Classic II red Tele
Ferrington red Tele
81 Pioneer Bass
various Foci
various pieces parts...
Bastards:
Ed Sheeran Sig Martin LX1E, 1st ed.
Billie Joe Armstrong Gibson LP Jr, 1st year


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 Post subject: New Kramer line
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:19 am 
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Kramer Maniac
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Posts: 616
Location: Springfield, OH
Certainly isn't an old one. Looks like the FR-1000 with the post bushings, generic tuners reminiscent of Korean Kramers, truss rod access at the headstock end. Did you search tempest that one, Doc? (at work :poke )

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I don't usually find a use for this smiley :flipa , but I like so there you have it.
Steve B.


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 Post subject: New Kramer line
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:22 am 
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Kramer Kommander
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Craig Johnson wrote:
What they need to do is target todays customer


And that's where I see the problem on the high-end side - Kramer is forgotten and basically unknown to "new" customers, so they'd have to compete against the whole bunch of other better-known brands like say ESP and Jackson etc. Would require a huge campaign, expensive endorsers and so on. That's quite expensive and risky for any manufacturer to basically launch a new brand from zero. Gibson is too profit oriented for such experiments I guess.


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 Post subject: New Kramer line
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:26 am 
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Kramer Kommander
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Location: Germany
Doc wrote:
Interestingly, this has been sitting on Craigslist in Atlanta for the past 2 months. What do you guys think it is, some sort of prototype? Check out the case!

https://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/msd/ ... 44579.html


I have seen several of those in ebay last year, brand new. They went for something like $600 or so. I never asked, but I thought those were regular series products. Could as well have been the first run or such though.

Same botched neck heel like the korean Pacers though, would have to be shaved off to look like the real thing (thinned out towards the joint instead of that big flat piece).


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 Post subject: New Kramer line
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:41 am 
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Kramer Kingpin
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I was sooo tempted to snag one of those from eBay when they were there. Even if it needed some massaging to get it to setup & play good, should have for the price. :bang

_________________
But let's face it, someone buys a Kramer b/c it has a Floyd.


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 Post subject: New Kramer line
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:38 am 
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Kramer Maniac
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Location: Augusta, ga
_xxx_ wrote:
Craig Johnson wrote:
What they need to do is target todays customer


And that's where I see the problem on the high-end side - Kramer is forgotten and basically unknown to "new" customers, so they'd have to compete against the whole bunch of other better-known brands like say ESP and Jackson etc. Would require a huge campaign, expensive endorsers and so on. That's quite expensive and risky for any manufacturer to basically launch a new brand from zero. Gibson is too profit oriented for such experiments I guess.



If you put the SM-1 at $1200 next to anything else in the $700-$900 range no one will buy it. Hell I won't buy one for $600 it's just that bad. Their current line (with the exception of the Pacer Vintage because I haven't played it) is over priced as well compared to other manufacturers guitars that are comparably priced.

Your high end and my high end are completely different apparently. A great guitar can be made and sold in the $1200-$1500 range that is made with quality parts, quality wood and great craftsmanship. A $3000 guitar...... no way!
The people that sell them are the guys at the guitar shops. Once they play it and love the feel and sound, they'll sell the guitar, that's their job. The guitars they're trying to sell for $699 are worth about $300. So again, those won't sell either.

If you actually read everything I wrote about selling and making value, it's all true and it'll work.

_________________
1986 Focus 1000 "Spidey"
1984 Pacer Special Custom Paint (Won on the Kramer Forum)
1999 Baretta (Holoflash)
1985 Baretta
1990 Baretta 1 Klein Naked lady reverse bound headstock
Stagemaster Deluxe "Guido"


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 Post subject: New Kramer line
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:43 am 
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Kramer Kommander
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Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 4:37 am
Posts: 2312
Location: Germany
I mean high-end as in regular ESP Horizon (being like a "real" Stagemaster) or US HSS Strat ( = Pacer), not some $3k custom shop stuff.

I agree with your reasoning but just don't think Gibson is willing to take a risk with no immediate/fast reward visible.


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