Welcome to the Kramer Forum

Kramer Forum - dedicated to Kramer guitars and basses, instruments for rock musicians.
It is currently Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:05 am

All times are UTC-04:00




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page 1 2 3 4 Next
Author Message
 Post subject: FAKE Pacer, beware
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:56 am 
Offline
Kramer Kommander
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 4:37 am
Posts: 2143
Location: Germany
Here's a mutt with re-logoed focus neck and whatever the body is, watch out...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Kramer-Pacer-D ... SwE1Bbi~td


Top
   
 Post subject: FAKE Pacer, beware
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:02 am 
Online
Kramer Kingpin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 8:34 pm
Posts: 3093
Location: ON CAN
Looks like a focus body as well. shrug

_________________
But let's face it, someone buys a Kramer b/c it has a Floyd.


Top
   
 Post subject: FAKE Pacer, beware
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:27 am 
Offline
Kramer Maniac
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:19 am
Posts: 346
Location: the woodshed, Canada
how can you tell its fake?

_________________
It may not be long, but it sure is skinny!


Top
   
 Post subject: FAKE Pacer, beware
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:48 am 
Offline
Kramer Maniac

Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 11:39 pm
Posts: 282
xxx, you have far more expertise than me, but this appears to have been some sort of project guitar, probably put together by a prior owner, and not the current seller. Looks like a strat body, converted to HSS, beak Kramer neck, aftermarket plate, and all sorts of mods thereafter. Someone put decent money into building that guitar. They even added locking tuners, which is strange.....
Just a guess - not a bad looking guitar, though obviously not what it says it is.

_________________
1981 Pacer Strat Head White
1981 Pacer Strat Head Walnut
1981 Pacer Strat Head Graphic
1981 Pacer Strat Head Sunburst
1982 Pacer Graphic Beak
83/86 Molested Pacer - TransRed Beak
1984 Pacer Candy Red Hockey
1984 Pacer Blue Hockey


Top
   
 Post subject: FAKE Pacer, beware
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:09 pm 
Offline
Kramer Kommander
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 4:37 am
Posts: 2143
Location: Germany
It escapes me why people invest more in upgrades than what the guitar is worth but yeah, it's a project mutt including refin and all. May be worth 350-400 in parts as is, but far from 1k bin he's asking for. Either he's been had by the previous owner or he's a cheater, but that changes nothing for potential buyers.

9am53 wrote:
how can you tell its fake?


Stubby headstock tip and thin not amber tinted finish is clearly Focus. Body is obviously not Pacer either, may be Focus or some other lesser asian model.

I got locking tuners on my Imp as well, it's simply comfy for fast string change or when you work on it and have to re-tune several times.


Top
   
 Post subject: FAKE Pacer, beware
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:12 pm 
Offline
Kramer Maniac

Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:45 pm
Posts: 616
The body is DEFINITELY a Sports... and they're easy to spot and differentiate from a Focus.


Top
   
 Post subject: FAKE Pacer, beware
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:50 pm 
Offline
Kramer Maniac

Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 11:39 pm
Posts: 282
_xxx_ wrote:
It escapes me why people invest more in upgrades than what the guitar is worth but yeah, it's a project mutt including refin and all. May be worth 350-400 in parts as is, but far from 1k bin he's asking for. Either he's been had by the previous owner or he's a cheater, but that changes nothing for potential buyers.

9am53 wrote:
how can you tell its fake?


Stubby headstock tip and thin not amber tinted finish is clearly Focus. Body is obviously not Pacer either, may be Focus or some other lesser asian model.

I got locking tuners on my Imp as well, it's simply comfy for fast string change or when you work on it and have to re-tune several times.

Nothing wrong in my mind with upgrading and spending more on a guitar than it's worth - guitars are generally very poor investments regardless. Buy em, play em, make em yours, it's all good.

_________________
1981 Pacer Strat Head White
1981 Pacer Strat Head Walnut
1981 Pacer Strat Head Graphic
1981 Pacer Strat Head Sunburst
1982 Pacer Graphic Beak
83/86 Molested Pacer - TransRed Beak
1984 Pacer Candy Red Hockey
1984 Pacer Blue Hockey


Top
   
 Post subject: FAKE Pacer, beware
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:10 pm 
Offline
Kramer Kommander
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 4:37 am
Posts: 2143
Location: Germany
The wrong thing is that you can buy the "real thing" for the sum total, which beats the crap out of the upgraded lower end model. Typical example being this one above - for those probably 700-800 invested in total, he could have easily bought a real Pacer.

It's illogical unless you *really* like that particular guitar for whatever sentimental reason or the rarity or such. Nothing against it if someone has money to burn, but you will never see me doing this shrug


Top
   
 Post subject: FAKE Pacer, beware
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:39 pm 
Offline
Kramer Maniac
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:24 pm
Posts: 728
Location: British Columbia
Yeah, Sports body for sure.
No serial# neck plate is odd. Not sure on the neck but everything else has been replaced.


Top
   
 Post subject: FAKE Pacer, beware
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:01 pm 
Offline
Kramer Maniac

Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:45 pm
Posts: 616
I see no deceit. Mentions specifically that the body and neck were separate, as well as the parts. Here's the translation:

Quote:
This guitar I have successively built up a ' 84 Kramer Pacer Deluxe Body (Alder), which I brought from the USA, from my guitar maker.
I had the body painted with Walter Kraushaar in White (polyurethane) (Superthin).
The neck also comes from the USA (Maple/Rosewood) and is a beginning/mid 80s Chickenhead with the patent pending Decall.
The Pickguard (3 ply) I have to cut after the original template (1 ply).
The configuration is HSS:
-The Steghumbucker is a Seymour Duncan Jeff Beck Trembucker with a nickel cap.
-In the middle sits a singel coil (custom flat strat-middle RWRP SSL-6 RWRP).
-On the neck a single coil (SSL-6Custom flat).
As a tremolo, I opted for a sounder lock master. In my view better than the "original" Floyd Rose. It is optimized around ' fu-tone ' brass parts (Spring claw, screw and block).
There are locking tuner installed.
All in all a great guitar that geba for the harder gait


Looking at the headstock pic, it sure does look like a silk-screened waterslide decal. Regardless of one thinks of the shape - and that is also up for debate as they mixed and matched parts - the neck looks pretty legit to me. I don't think the asking price is bad either, as someone would have what looks to be a gig-ready instrument.

Whether there is value in a build like this is up to the potential buyer. Not all buyers are of a collector mind. In fact we had a thread earlier where many folks said that they are more players than collectors, yet all the sudden playability goes out the window because the guitar is not all original. Then there was the thread where folks said that anything could have happened at Kramer the way parts were mixed and matched, yet this body is not a real USA Pacer, and the neck can't be from a USA series because of the headstock shape. Meanwhile there's about 3 or 4 non-tilt nana head shapes, and about as many tilt-nana head shapes... not to mention scarf joined, 3-piece, "tranny", "tranny" with skunk stripe... And really this has ALWAYS been the problem with Kramers as far as collectability.


What I can say for sure is that there is no doubt in my mind this is a Sports body. Starting with the larger body shape with larger space around the cutaways, the hard edge on the forearm contour, the tummy cut that is a lot longer than a Focus and blends in more with the forearm cut on the front, the shape of the trem cavity, the half-length bevel for the springs (Focus have fully beveled spring cavity because they are CNC'd), and the smoking gun "notch" on the lower left side that can be seen on many if not all USA bodies from at least '82 all the way to '85.


Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page 1 2 3 4 Next

All times are UTC-04:00


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited
Theme Created by HOLLYSMOKE
Theme updated to phpBB 3.1.6 by KamijouTouma
Theme Version is 3.1.6-ss2